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Interview with Ed Morgan, July 7 1978

1978-07-07 Interview with Ed Morgan, July 7 1978 FNS001:1978OH143 FNS 03 01:48:18 FNS001 Frontier Nursing Service Oral History Project Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries Ed Morgan Frontier Nursing Service, Inc. Rural health services Ed Morgan; interviewee Dale Deaton; interviewer 1978OH143_FNS003_Morgan 1:|6(3)|45(10)|74(8)|112(2)|130(3)|160(2)|192(5)|219(6)|232(6)|247(8)|293(4)|327(1)|356(13)|395(2)|429(4)|456(6)|487(1)|514(2)|547(5)|584(10)|613(12)|648(10)|681(12)|717(7)|744(4)|773(14)|794(11)|818(2)|853(12)|887(1)|907(10)|937(2)|966(7)|996(1)|1019(3)|1053(7)|1068(8)|1086(8)|1117(3)|1138(4)|1164(11)|1201(2)|1242(7)|1263(3)|1299(4)|1318(4)|1348(5)|1375(5)|1397(13)|1433(4)|1452(11)|1466(5)|1485(4)|1507(2)|1528(3)|1538(14)|1563(4)|1595(5)|1611(5)|1637(11)|1661(6)|1679(4)|1694(3)|1720(3)|1754(8)|1784(5)|1809(1)|1851(6)|1895(10)|1924(7)|1941(4)|1972(2)|1999(5)|2011(12)|2028(3)|2050(9)|2071(1)|2099(12)|2116(4)|2147(6)|2166(5)|2182(1)|2201(2)|2230(9)|2268(2)|2290(9)|2317(7)|2327(6)|2354(2)|2380(2)|2411(10)|2436(13)|2453(3)|2481(9)|2497(4)|2514(11)|2541(9)|2564(2)|2591(15)|2620(3)|2644(6)|2666(7)|2691(9)|2712(4)|2735(9)|2749(7)|2770(4)|2794(5) audiotrans FNSColl Oral History DEATON: This is an interview with Mr. Ed Morgan for the Oral History Project, Frontier Nursing Service, by Dale Deaton, at his home at Wendover, Kentucky at approximately 9: 30 a.m. on 7 July, 1978. [Interruption in taping] DEATON: Have you lived in this house in the Wendover area most of your life? MORGAN: Since 1911. DEATON: Were you born-- MORGAN: I was born in Hyden. DEATON: All right. Did your parents live here on this property? MORGAN: Yeah, after--after 1911. They lived here until they died. They died here. DEATON: What year were you born in? MORGAN: 1902. DEATON: Do you remember what you first started working at as a child, what you helped your father work at around the farm? MORGAN: Well--well, I first started just working on the farm until I was about fifteen, then I went in the log woods. DEATON: Well, what--the farm work, what all did you do on that? MORGAN: I hoed, plowed corn. DEATON: Did you raise your own hogs and cattle? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Did you help slaughter those here? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: How long did it take to slaughter a hog? MORGAN: Slaughter one? DEATON: Uh-huh. MORGAN: Oh, I don't know, kindly [sic kind of] according to the--you know, had just to be a fire and heat water in kettles. Big kettles. Sometimes it's--it's according to how the--what you had to heat with. DEATON: If you had to heat it with wood, it always took a little longer? MORGAN: Well, that's what we heated it with, but sometimes it'd be wet, you know. It'd be wet or maybe--who---there's a whole lot of things that you'd--the colder it was, the harder it was to heat. DEATON: Well, when did you go in the log woods? When did you start working in that? MORGAN: Oh, in nineteen and sixteen. DEATON: So you were what, only about-- MORGAN: I was-- DEATON:--fourteen or fifteen? MORGAN:--about fourteen. DEATON: Where did you work at with those? MORGAN: Me and--me and Wainwright Bowling was a boy that was raised here down the river here, we sawed logs. DEATON: Um-hm. MORGAN: Crosscut. DEATON: Were you doing it for yourselves? MORGAN: Doing it for my daddy. DEATON: What would you do with 'em after you got them sawed? MORGAN: Raft them and run 'em. DEATON: Did you ride the rafts then? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Well, did you take those down during the tide? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Where did you take those to? MORGAN: Took 'em to Beattyville, St. Helen and Belle Point. DEATON: Was that all during the spring of the year? MORGAN: Well, in--in the winter time [tides in--started coming], you know, some--they hardly ever come before December. Sometime it come one in November, not too often though. DEATON: How long did it take you to make the trip from here, say, to Beattyville? MORGAN: Well, it--it was according to what time the tide come, you know. We'd tend to start up when the tide was just right to start on and sometimes they'd get too big, and they hardly ever turned a raft loose up here of a night. So they'd have to wait till daylight and sometimes they'd miss a tide that way. Be down too low. But it took about two days. Generally two days. We were generally out two nights on the--on the river. DEATON: Well, that was a pretty dangerous trip, wasn't it? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Did you ever know of anyone getting hurt on one of those trips? MORGAN: No. No, and I knowed a few people being drowned, but that was--that was about all. They never did--hardly ever get crippled up or anything. DEATON: What types of logs did you take down with you? Walnut logs or-- MORGAN: Walnut, oak, poplar. DEATON: So it was really the hardwood timber that you were-- MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON:--taking down. MORGAN: Beech. Some beech. Later years, up in the last part of the '20s, they--they got to running a lot of beech. DEATON: Um-hm. Was there any particular reason for that? MORGAN: Well, yeah, there's one reason. The--the oak timber that give out, the best part of it, you know, and they--they got to buying the beech. DEATON: Um-hm. Well, do you remember the name of the company in Beattyville that you sold the logs to? MORGAN: In Beattyville? Belle Point Lumber Company was one of 'em. It was run by the--run by the [Hensleys?] or they was--they was part of it. Then there's [Morgan?] Robinson, and--Morgan Robinson and Flannery. DEATON: Flannery? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Um-hm. MORGAN: And they had mills on down the river. Now, the Bellepointe Company had--they had a mill at Bellepointe. That's down below Beattyville. And then there's some--I think there's a mill at Heidelberg, and that's on down there. But we just run the rafts to Beattyville, St. Helen and Belle Point. DEATON: Um-hm. Except-- MORGAN: And then--then they--when they took 'em on down further to the mills, why, they'd just bunch 'em up and take 'em down with a boat. See, that's slack water after you got to St--. St. Helen. DEATON: Slack water? MORGAN: Yeah,-- DEATON: Oh! MORGAN:--from the locks and dams. DEATON: Um-hm. Did--did they catch those logs in a boom at Beattyville? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: How were those booms made? MORGAN: Well, they--they caught the loose logs. DEATON: Um-hm. How were--how did they make the booms? MORGAN: Logs chained together upside the--they stood out from the bank, you know, chained together then you could walk 'em, and up here they had--they was on each side and they--they come together and then they'd stand there and pull 'em in. They had a [float brand?] on they could see? DEATON: Um-hm. MORGAN: Had a [float brand?] on 'em that they--they all had handle brands on 'em, but every company had a [float brand?] of paint. Different--they--they used different colored paints. DEATON: So they separated the logs at the mills by the color of the paint on the-- MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON:--end of the log? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Oh, I see. Except for a crosscut saw, what other tools did you use when you logged? MORGAN: Well, just axes and crosscut saws and hammers and wedges. DEATON: Um-hm. Do you remember how much they paid for that lumber then, those logs that you sold 'em? MORGAN: Not exactly. When--when we're back--when we're talking about crosscutting, I don't--I don't remember just what we got then, but then along in the '20s it went up to--good oak timber, they was about forty dollars a thousand. And there was--there was several year they didn't raft or run any till long in the--long in the '20s. Eighteen, twenty, and--and along there and up till about '24 or '-5, they--they floated the logs. All we done, just dumped 'em in the river. DEATON: And put a brand on 'em? MORGAN: Yeah, put--they'd brand 'em. The company put the brand on 'em when they measured 'em, hammered them. And then they'd hire some boy to put a paint brand on 'em. DEATON: Did you know of anyone having trouble with other people sawing those brands off the end of the log and putting other brands on 'em. MORGAN: No, I nev---I never did. DEATON: No, I mean did you know of any--of any of the companies having trouble with that--that happening? MORGAN: No. They did--I've heard daddy talk about, before I ever was on the river or anyway before I went down the river on timber, they had some awful big walnuts in here then. Once in awhile they'd lose a log out of a raft or maybe a piece of a raft, and they--they'd catch it down below, you know, and pull it out-- DEATON: What--what-- MORGAN:------------(??). DEATON:--what were the size of some of those trees? What was the size of the largest ones across, the diameter? MORGAN: I don't know. I don't know, just--well, some of 'em was awful-- awful big, I know that. DEATON: Say four or five feet, would that-- MORGAN: About--about five, five and a half, something like that. DEATON: Well, would--would those have been walnut trees or some other type? MORGAN: Poplar. DEATON: Mostly poplar-- MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON:--trees? What were some of the larger size walnut trees that you would estimate? MORGAN: Well, after I got big enough to work, they run--they'd run up about twenty--twenty inches, along there, twenty-four, somewhere along there. DEATON: Did your father-- MORGAN: Not too big. DEATON:--did your father or any others tell you about walnut trees-- MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON:--that were much larger than that? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: What were the size of some of those? MORGAN: Some up in the thirty inches. Some of 'em were thirty, thirty- five. DEATON: And was that the virgin timber growth they-- MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON:--were cutting? MORGAN: Yes, that's--that was before I got big enough to work. DEATON: How long did you work in the log woods at that time? MORGAN: Well, I--I worked in to a--up till I got up about eighteen and then I went to--I went to Perry County and worked some. I'd--I'd go over and work four or five months and then I'd come back maybe--maybe farm or maybe log. DEATON: Um-hm. When you were in Perry County, what did you work at there? MORGAN: Mines. DEATON: The coal mines? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: What--what-- MORGAN: And--and logs, too. Worked several different jobs. DEATON: What companies did you work for over there? MORGAN: I worked for the--down at [Chavies?] I worked for--now, what--I can't--now it wasn't Burton, it was (sighs)------------(??). And I worked for--but it was a company that was working for old Kenevey. DEATON: Um-hm. The Kenevey-- MORGAN: Coal company. DEATON: Uh-huh. MORGAN: It was just--just a--you know, ----------(??) operating a mine for Kenevey. DEATON: And that was a deep mine? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: What was your job then? What would you do? MORGAN: I ran-- DEATON: Describe sort of a day's work for me with ----------(??) coal mining. MORGAN: I was a trapper when I first went in. DEATON: And what was a trapper? MORGAN: Open trap doors, turn the drivers through and keep the trap lines [plugged?]. You know, throw switches for 'em. Turn 'em which way they was supposed to go. They come out of one place, where--entry, why, they would [join in?] in another one then. DEATON: Well, what did they use to pull the--the coal out with? MORGAN: Mules. DEATON: Mules? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: What type of lighting did they use in the mines? MORGAN: Cars. DEATON: Pardon? MORGAN: Cars. Yeah, they used cars on rails. DEATON: Yeah. Well, the--the lights that they had in the mines wasn't-- did everyone have a carbide lantern? Is that what they all used? MORGAN: Well, they used carbide lamps the first time ever I was in, but before that they used oil lamps. DEATON: Coal oil or-- MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON:--kerosene? MORGAN: Yeah. Yeah. And a wick. But I never did--I seen them, but I never did use one. I was--I was just a small boy. DEATON: Well, what was--how long or how many hours did you work in one day for the coal mine? MORGAN: They worked about eight and sometimes ten. DEATON: Was it a five day a week job or-- MORGAN: Yeah, they--they generally just worked five days. DEATON: And what was the pay at that--about that time? MORGAN: I believe they paid me a dollar and a half. I believe it was two dollars. DEATON: A day? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Uh-huh. MORGAN: I--I can't remember, it's been so long. DEATON: Well, would that have been about 1918 or '19? MORGAN: Yeah, about nineteen--about nineteen and nineteen, I guess, somewhere along there was the first time I went in the mine. DEATON: And how long did you do that? MORGAN: I didn't do that but a short time. Then I went--I went to loading coal. [I wasn't much in pay as at that?]. I got four dollars a day for a ["chalk eye"?]. DEATON: And what's a ["chalk eye"?]? MORGAN: Well, it's just shoveling coal for the other feller. DEATON: Oh! MORGAN: And the more he'd get out of you, why, the more he made. He was loading by the--he was loading by the ton. DEATON: So he got paid for how many ton that he got loaded? MORGAN: Ever how many ton he got his check on, why, that's how much he got paid for. DEATON: And he paid you four dollars a day for doing that? MORGAN: Uh-huh. Yeah. DEATON: I see. MORGAN: That's what they call a ["chalk eye"?]. DEATON: How would that--how would that wage--the four dollars a day, how would that compare with the money that other people were making around the area? Now, was that a fairly good wage? MORGAN: Yeah, that--that--that was fairly good. DEATON: Hmm. If a person worked on a farm for someone else and hoed corn or plowed or whatever, about what did they get paid for a day's work doing that? MORGAN: Well, back in nineteen and fifteen, sixteen, they paid about seventy-five cents a day, a boy. And some men--some of the, you know, better hands ----------(??) said, you know, get out and dig on that would get what, a dollar, dollar and a quarter some of 'em. DEATON: Um-hm. So the coal miners were making fairly good wages-- MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON:--in comparison to everyone else? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: How long did you go back and forth and do that, work in Perry County? MORGAN: I don't know what--that was about nineteen and thirty, I guess, somewhere along there. But I never worked in the mines, not in 1930, but I'd go and--I'd go off and work the timber woods. DEATON: Um-hm. Was that here in Leslie County? MORGAN: Yea---no, it was in--when I worked in the timber woods off, it was in Harlan County. DEATON: Um-hm. Do you remember the companies that were over there then? MORGAN: In Harlan? DEATON: Yeah. MORGAN: Yeah, there's Kentucky Utility. Kentucky [King?] they called it, and I don't--and there was another company, Creech Coal Company. DEATON: Creech? MORGAN: Yeah. Then we worked up at Lynch, up in there. On--up in Cumberland at Looney's Creek. DEATON: Um-hm. Well, do you remember hearing anything about the stock market crash in 1929 in the Depression when all that started? Do you remember that? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: What did it--do you remember what it meant to you when you heard anything about it? Did you understand what they were talking about? MORGAN: It meant that I had to get out of Detroit. DEATON: You were in Detroit then? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: What were you doing there? MORGAN: Was trying to get a (laughs) job. I never--I never got a job at Chrysler. DEATON: Chrysler Motor Company? MORGAN: Yeah. I believe it was on Mack Avenue and--Mack and Jefferson ----------(??), I don't know. DEATON: What did you do there? MORGAN: I never worked. I just went there and got a job and was just waiting for 'em to call me. I done had the job, you know, and I think they told me to come back on Monday, I believe it was. They told me a certain day to come back. DEATON: Yeah. MORGAN: And that--that hit in May and I don't know what--seem like it was the twenty-ninth to me. It may--may have been earlier than that, I don't know, but I know it was in nineteen and--and twenty-nine. DEATON: Um-hm. So you didn't get the job-- MORGAN: No. DEATON:--because of the stock market crash? MORGAN: No, I went-- DEATON: Did you-- MORGAN:--I went back to Harlan. DEATON: And where did you go back to? Did you go back to work for one of those other companies? MORGAN: Yeah, I went back to work where I left from. DEATON: Um-hm. Well, did you work for the--for the coal company or-- MORGAN: No, I worked for just a contractor. DEATON: Uh-huh. MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Did you do that most of the '30s? MORGAN: No. I just worked up there a couple years, part of--part of two year. And then I come back here and made this crop and scrapped around the best I could like everybody else. DEATON: Was that during the dry spell? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Well, do you remember all the programs that came out of the Roosevelt administration, the W.P.A. [Works Projects Administration] and all those? MORGAN: Yeah, I remember. DEATON: Did you work on any of those? MORGAN: No, I never got--I never done none of that. DEATON: What did you think about those programs? MORGAN: I think they was a great thing. DEATON: Um-hm. What did they do around Wendover in Leslie County that you recall? MORGAN: Well, the CC's, they never--they--they had them on fire work here. DEATON: With the forestry? MORGAN: Yeah, forestry, but in--in other places, they--they built roads, they done a little of everything. DEATON: Um-hm. But you never worked with any of them? MORGAN: No, I didn't work for any of 'em. DEATON: Do you recall much about Roosevelt? Did you have a radio when he was president? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Do you remember when--when you got your first radio, about the year. Doesn't matter which one specifically. MORGAN: Well, it was in the '20s sometime, I guess. I don't remember just when they-- DEATON: Which station did you pick up? MORGAN: Mostly Louisville. DEATON: Um-hm. And did you hear-- MORGAN: And I know I was listening--all the time that Tokyo Rose-- DEATON: You listened to her from Louisville? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Oh. What-- MORGAN: It--it was a--turned out to be her. I forgot what that girl-- woman's name was that--what was her name, Marie? You remember that--MRS. MORGAN: No, I don't. MORGAN: --that sung "Smoke on the Water" all the time? DEATON: Oh, it was a radio singing show? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Oh, okay. MORGAN: Yeah. And I know they--and it turned out when she was singing that, it was--it was a signal they said. So that's so that--what we was told and that's what the news said and-- DEATON: Oh, during World War II? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Uh-huh. Do you remember any of the fireside chats of Roosevelt? Did you listen to those? MORGAN: No, I don't think I did. DEATON: Um-hm. Do you recall the first presidential election that you remember? Did you register to vote when you got twenty-one? MORGAN: Um-hm. But I don't remember what president I voted for. DEATON: Um-hm. What about the county elections, do you remember those? MORGAN: Yeah, but I don't--I can't remember when the--who--who was--who ran. DEATON: When those elections came up, were you more interested in local elections in the county or with national elections like the president or a senator? MORGAN: Well, it--local elections generally gets stirred up more. DEATON: Uh-huh. So you had a little bit--a little more interest in it. MORGAN: Yeah. (laughs) DEATON: Well, during the '20s, do you recall when Mary Breckinridge came into the--to Leslie County, Wendover area? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Your father was Taylor Morgan? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: And-- MORGAN: I was working on [Carl's?] Fork in the mines when she come in here. DEATON: Um-hm. Well, did the property that Wendover is located on now, was that once your father's land? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: How--how did that become the property of the Frontier Nursing Service? MORGAN: He let 'em have it. DEATON: He gave it to them? MORGAN: I don't know. I think they paid--he sold it to 'em real cheap, I know that. DEATON: How many--do you know how many acres he sold? MORGAN: Thirteen. DEATON: DWELL: Did he sell them anymore after that, some other-- MORGAN: No. DEATON:--time? MORGAN: They got part of this land, though, when it was divided. See this--this place here belonged to Daddy and ----------(??). When she come in here, there wasn't nobody let her have no place to build, and she was leaving. DEATON: Do you know why they wouldn't let her have a place? MORGAN: Well, I don't know. It's--I don't know why. DEATON: Do you-- MORGAN: I think some of 'em just wanted to--wanted to gyp her on it and some didn't want nothing to do with her, I guess, and-- DEATON: Do you remember, before we go on, on the--the land, do you remember how people felt about her when she first came in? MORGAN: Well, they wouldn't--they--I don't think they welcomed her too much for the--when she first come. But I--I don't know. That didn't last long. DEATON: Uh-huh. MORGAN: That didn't last long. DEATON: Did they feel she was an outsider and didn't have no business-- MORGAN: Yeah, I--I think that was it more than anything else. DEATON: So your father let her have the land. MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Did he ever say why he let her have it? MORGAN: To help something. To help the neighborhood. Try to get something started, you see. DEATON: Yeah. And Wendover--well, what's now Wendover and the buildings there, did your father or did you help build any of those? MORGAN: I own about every piece that's in that--the old building there. The-- DEATON: Her house? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: The one that she lived in? MORGAN: Yeah. I hauled all the logs, rock and an awful lot of the finished lumber and Celotex and stuff, and windows, doors, and stuff from Hazard. DEATON: Well, the--the logs that were there, did you cut those or just haul them down? MORGAN: I just hauled 'em. DEATON: And what--what are most of those logs? What--what type of lumber are they? MORGAN: They're chestnut and poplar, ash. DEATON: Did they come from the mountain up above the building? MORGAN: Yeah, they come from all over the place. Some of 'em come off of this place, I think. I believe some of 'em come off this place. Some of that cabin and some of the first ones that was built come off of here. DEATON: On this side of the river? MORGAN: Yeah, off of this place. And-- DEATON: Did your father sell those to her or did he give them to her? MORGAN: Might have given 'em to 'em. They just cut 'em and haul 'em over. And logs that's in that big building, most of 'em come out of-- out of this mountain for--up around ----------(??) Bryan Morgan's. That is across the river where Kate Ireland lives. DEATON: Yeah. MORGAN: And off--off of that--off the side that Kate lives on too, he got some from Morgan there and [Beshear's]. DEATON: Um-hm. Well, how did they lay the logs for that house? It's-- it's a tall building. How'd you get them up that high? MORGAN: Run 'em up that--off of that bank there on--on poles. No, we had a--they had a hoist. Rigged up a hoist. Stiff-leg of a thing, they called it. DEATON: Do you remember who else helped build that? MORGAN: Well, I couldn't remember all of 'em. Pretty near everybody in the country worked there. DEATON: Did you build the hoist that they raised the logs with? MORGAN: No. I don't know--I don't know who rigged it up. I--I just hauled the hogs. I was--I never done nothing but haul logs. DEATON: Um-hm. That--did you--the--the windows and so forth that you hauled from Hazard, how long did it take you to get in here with those? MORGAN: It took me two days and a half to make the trip. DEATON: Is that-- MORGAN: In the win---in the wintertime, then it's a hard two days in the summertime. DEATON: Was that over the same road that--that eighty is built over now--the highway is built over now? MORGAN: No. DEATON: How did-- MORGAN: Well, it--it hits it part of the way and part of the way it don't. DEATON: How did the road go then? MORGAN: Well, it followed it pretty well in a--in a way till it got to Brown's Fork and then--then you went up Brown's Fork and across Pine Mountain. DEATON: Oh, I see. Um-hm. MORGAN: And you didn't go around by Combs till after the road was graded and then we could--we come around that way with a load after the road was graded and them bridges was in. DEATON: When-- MORGAN: Saved--saved a lot of mountain. DEATON: Um-hm. Did you--how much did you get paid when you were working on the house then? MORGAN: On--on that haul? DEATON: Um-hm. MORGAN: Well, I got paid a dollar and a quarter a day. [End of Tape #1, Side #1] [Begin Tape #1, Side #2] DEATON: And that was what, about 1925 or-- MORGAN: Nineteen--yeah, '25-'26. I--done this work in November in--in 1925. And they started the buildings in August and my daddy wanted me to come home and drive the mules? And I quit mining and done this work for him. DEATON: Was Mary Breckinridge there the entire time the buildings were being built? MORGAN: Part of the time. She had to--she had a headquarters in town and she'd come up every--every so often when she wasn't gone. DEATON: But the headquarters she had in Hyden, what--do you know where those were located? MORGAN: I believe it was what they called the Miss Houston House. And I-- DEATON: And where's-- MORGAN:--I think that's-- DEATON:--where is that at? MORGAN:--that's up at--on the corner across from a Presbyterian Church. DEATON: Um-hm. The one that's there now? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Oh, so it was across Rockhouse Creek from Main Street? MORGAN: Yeah. Yeah, it was across Rockhouse. I'm--I'm satisfied that was--I'm satisfied that was the building where she first stayed till they got the place built up here. DEATON: Um-hm. Do you recall what you thought about--when did you first meet her, do you remember that? MORGAN: Well, it was in November in '25. DEATON: What did you think about her? Do you recall your thoughts about her? MORGAN: Well, yeah I--I--I thought she was a smart woman. DEATON: Did you like her, I mean personally or-- MORGAN: Well, I have seen people I'd rather talk to. DEATON: Uh-huh. Why (laughs)--why is that? MORGAN: Well, if you--if you didn't talk to her sooner, you were subject to get bawled out. DEATON: If you didn't--say that (laughing) again! Say that again. If you didn't what now? MORGAN: I was kidding. If she didn't--you didn't talk to her sooner, you were subject to get bawled out. DEATON: Oh! Why was tha---do you recall any--any time with yourself or someone else that that happened to? MORGAN: Well, she was--she was pretty--you know, pretty ----------(??) so she didn't. I don't guess she had time to be fooling with us, to tell you the truth about it. DEATON: Um-hm. Do you recall any event or--or specific incident? MORGAN: Well, no (laughs), not exactly. I-- DEATON: Well, did--did you--did you like her or-- MORGAN: Yeah, I liked her. I liked her. DEATON: Well, how--did you feel like she was a person that--that was hard to get along with or just a person that wanted to get the job done? MORGAN: Well, she was a person who wanted to get the job done. DEATON: Um-hm. And mo---you think most people felt that way about her? MORGAN: Yeah. Yeah. DEATON: Did you ever get to know her very well while she lived here? MORGAN: Yes. Yeah. DEATON: AME> DEATON: What did you talk about mostly when you were together? MORGAN: Well, mostly just work. DEATON: Um-hm. Did you do a great deal of work for her? MORGAN: Well, I worked--I don't know. I hauled her several--several year, I don't remember just how long. Up into the '30s till after the roads was fixed up, you now, and--and graveled. DEATON: Well, was the road built up to Wendover by then? MORGAN: Well, it was just a wagon-- [Interruption in taping] DEATON:--Wendover were completed within about a year after they were started. MORGAN: Yes. There's the barn, cabin, and--and what they called "The Big House". They always called it "The Big House". DEATON: Um-hm. Do you know who gave it that name? MORGAN: No, (laughing) I don't. DEATON: Was it named that because it was a big house or-- MORGAN: Well, it was just bigger than the cabin, you know, and they-- that was just a way of identifying it from the-- DEATON: Um-hm. Do you remember when the first nurses came in with--for- -for the FNS? Well, that was called the--the Committee for Mothers and Babies at that time. Do you remember when the first nurses began to come in? MORGAN: They come in here and--and there was one come with her. One or two. One or two come with her. DEATON: Do you recall their names? Would it have been Peacock and Willaford? MORGAN: There's one before. Let's see. No, sir, I--I can't remember her name and I--I can't remember it. DEATON: Well, after they began-- MORGAN: Her name was Freda, but I can't--Freda--I--I can't think of it. DEATON: Okay. The people that--that lived here in the area, did they immediately accept the medical care from Mrs. Breckinridge? MORGAN: Yeah. Yeah. DEATON: And they mostly concentrated on mothers at that time? MORGAN: Yeah. Yeah, and they'd patch up people when they got banged up around. DEATON: Were there any doctors in the area before she came here that you remember? MORGAN: Well, there was--yeah, there was a--I think there was a Dr. [Bayford?], Dr. Miner. I think Dr. Miner was here at that time. I don't-- DEATON: Now, were they located in Leslie County-- MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON:--at Hyden? MORGAN: At Hyden. DEATON: Um-hm. Did you ever know any old "granny women" that lived around here? MORGAN: Well, do you, Marie? MRS. MORGAN: Tildy Bowles. MORGAN: Yeah, Tildy and-- DEATON: Do you--did you know about their practices, what they did when they assisted in--in child delivery? MORGAN: No, not too much. DEATON: Yeah. Well, after the nurses came in with Mrs. Breckinridge and the people began to go to them, do you recall what the people thought about them? MORGAN: About the nurses? DEATON: Um-hm. MORGAN: Well, the--the biggest part of people always liked 'em when they went and went to a place, they--they generally always--they appreciated it and liked it. And they depended on 'em. DEATON: After they began to build the--the outpost nursing centers like at Beech Fork and the others, did they have any of the same problems about finding land? MORGAN: No, I don't think they did. Now, that place on Beech Fork there was a [Mosley?]. I think he give 'em--I think he give 'em that place up there, a place--place to build, small place. Let's see, what he--he was a [Mosley?]. DEATON: So how long did you actually work with building the buildings and--and so forth at Wendover? MORGAN: I think they had everything about completed there in--in about eighteen or--months or two years. But they--still they worked on. They--they, you know, kept on building and-- DEATON: And the only road there at that time was the wagon road? MORGAN: The wagon road. DEATON: Well, the road was built and opened from Hazard about what, 1928 or 1929? Was that when cars could travel across that road? MORGAN: Yeah, only through the winters. It [laid?] a long time. I believe it was 1927 when they--when they graded it from--from Lot's Creek down to--well, it's down to Big Creek. And then there was another contract on it. DEATON: Do you remember-- MORGAN: Maybe that--maybe that contract was from '2---I guess it was in '27, too, when they opened it up from over there on Hurt's Creek, across and down Big Creek. DEATON: Do you recall the first car that you saw in Leslie County? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Is that the first one that you had seen? MORGAN: No, I'd see cars around Hazard. DEATON: Uh-huh. When--when did you fir---drive your first car? MORGAN: I never did drive one only once. DEATON: What happened? Why didn't you drive anymore after that? MORGAN: I run it up a cliff. (laughter) I run it up a cliff and-- DEATON: Did you-- MORGAN:--I'd run it up a cliff. I was running it over it so I--I just run it up. DEATON: Did you tear the car up? Who did it belong to? MORGAN: My daddy. It was his truck. DEATON: And you haven't driven a car since then? MORGAN: Um-um. Yes, I drove one for Merle, my son-in-law. DEATON: Um-hm. Why--so after you built--helped build the buildings at Wendover and--and all of that is when you went to Detroit to try to get a job, right? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: What made you decide to leave Leslie County and go to Detroit? MORGAN: I just took--I took a notion to go over in Harlan and work awhile, and--and I got up there and this bunch of boys--I was working with a bunch of boys. They was all grown men but, anyway, we decided we'd go to Detroit. Kept hearing about it, you know,-- DEATON: What did you hear? MORGAN:--'cause they was paying--we was making about four dollars a day then at--so we decided we'd go up there. Four or five, I don't remember. Five dollars I guess it was, I don't remember. I know we--we was getting two dollars and board where we was working. Two and a half and board in the--in the log camp. Well, it was a timber camp, getting timber for the mines. DEATON: Oh, mining props? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Oh, I see. Well, how did you go to Detroit? Did you take the train or-- MORGAN: Well, we started in an old car. An old--big old Studebaker touring car and-- DEATON: Who owned that, do you remember. MORGAN: Some Garrison boy down in Knox County. And we got down there and the old car tore up and some of 'em decided they wouldn't go, and there was part of us went on a bus. DEATON: Is the--is that the first time that you had been that far away from Leslie County? MORGAN: No, I'd been to Cincinnati before that. Fort Thomas. DEATON: Was that with logging or-- MORGAN: No, I went to--can you imagine just to be away from home? DEATON: Um-hm. Now, your trip to Cincinnati, what was the reason for-- MORGAN: I went there to enlist in the Army. DEATON: Oh! What--what year was that? MORGAN: That was about nineteen and nineteen, I guess. DEATON: Did you go in service? MORGAN: No, they turned me down. DEATON: Oh. So you went the rest of the way to Detroit on a bus? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: What did you--do you recall what you thought about Detroit city when you got there? MORGAN: Well, no, not--not in particular. DEATON: Did you like it while you were there? MORGAN: Yeah, it--it was all right. DEATON: What did you do when you were waiting around to see if you had a job? MORGAN: We just knocked around the boarding house and--where we got a place to board? DEATON: Um-hm. MORGAN: And try--trying to hunt some of that bootleg hooch. DEATON: Huh! Where did you get it at? MORGAN: Around the restaurants. DEATON: Oh, they sold it in res---it was bootleg but they-- MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON:--sold it in restaurants? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: How much did it cost? MORGAN: That's about a dollar, two dollars and a half a pint. Two dollars a pint or something. I don't--don't remember. DEATON: So that was about a half a day's pay then-- MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON:--for a pint of bootleg whiskey. MORGAN: Yeah. Yeah. DEATON: Was it good quality whiskey? MORGAN: Um-um. No, it'd give you the headache. Bad stuff. DEATON: Had you ever drunk any moonshine here in Kentucky before you went up there? MORGAN: Yeah, some. DEATON: Was it a lot better quality? MORGAN: Yeah. (laughter) Yeah. DEATON: Do you know how to make moonshine? Have--has anyone ever told you how you make good moonshine? MORGAN: I--I guess I could--could make it. DEATON: How--how--what would be the best way to make good moonshine? MORGAN: Well, to keep it clean would be the best--is one thing, and get it to--you know, get it to ferment right. DEATON: Well, it-- MORGAN: Boil it off or run it off before it--before it soured, you know. After--after it works off, it'll sour and stale, try to rot. DEATON: Uh-huh. Well, do you grind the corn before you boil it, or how do you do that? MORGAN: You just use meal. Just meal, yeah. DEATON: Um-hm. And--and put water in that and boil it, or how-- MORGAN: Yeah, you first just make a big dough and you pour your meal in a--in a barrel and scald it, let it lay over all night and start to sour a little. DEATON: And then what do you do? MORGAN: Let it--let it lay there long enough till it starts to sour, and then you--then you throw some malt in it. Fill 'em up with water. Sugar, if you want to put the sugar to it. DEATON: Um-hm. And then what do you do from there? MORGAN: Wait till it works off. DEATON: How does it work off? MORGAN: It just bubbles. DEATON: And then you drain the top of--how do-- MORGAN: Yeah, you just pour that off into your still and boil her off. DEATON: You pour that off into the still-- MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON:--then you--and then you boil that? MORGAN: Yeah. Then show--throw sugar right back in that slop that's in that bottom of that barrel. You don't get all the meal out, you know. DEATON: Uh-huh. And after it's in the still and you boil that, is that when it turns to steam and comes through the coil? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: How can you tell if it's a good quality or not? MORGAN: Taste of it, one thing. DEATON: Does the color of the beads in it make any difference? MORGAN: Yeah, you put that bead on it after you run it off. DEATON: Uh-huh. Well, after you came back from Detroit, what did you do? Did you come back to Leslie County? MORGAN: I come back to Harlan and worked about--a couple of--no, I worked about a month and then come on home. Then I went back to Wendover and that's just--I went driving a team again for my daddy hauling for Wen---Wendover. DEATON: Was that material or food or-- MORGAN: That was material, feed. See, they kept about--they had about- -I don't know, about twenty-five horses up there at one time, something like that. Kept fifteen--fifteen around there all the time. They had a--they finally got--they had--they added on to the barn and then they built another barn. Built two more barns. Well, there was--I built it, and I believe they built--yeah, they had a small barn that they had for sick horses, crippled horses, something like that, where they'd doctor 'em up. DEATON: Did the women care for their own horses? MORGAN: No. No, they had a man that took care of that. DEATON: Oh. MORGAN: Took one man busy keeping them shod-- DEATON: Um-hm. Do you reme--- MORGAN:--and fed. DEATON:--do you remember who it was? MORGAN: Kerm Morgan worked at it longer than anybody. DEATON: What was his first name? MORGAN: Kermit. DEATON: Kermit Morgan? MORGAN: Um-hm. DEATON: Uh-huh. Did he brush down the horses-- MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON:--and all that when they came in? MORGAN: Yeah. He'd brush 'em off and-- DEATON: Did he saddle 'em up-- MORGAN: Yeah, they-- DEATON:--for the nurses in the morning? MORGAN: Yeah. Sometimes the nurses saddled 'em. If he--if he was out or doing something else, why, they--they--they could saddle 'em. But the regular nurse that made the--the regular nurse at Wendover, why, they--they generally always saddled her horse and had it ready. She left--always went on her rounds at a--at a certain time, you know. The others, when they--the couriers and things, they never knowed when they was going. They--they done their own saddling and--and they finally-- they finally took over the job of grooming the horses. DEATON: Um-hm. And that was the couriers? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Do you remember any of those? Did you meet any of those people that you recall? MORGAN: What, the couriers? DEATON: Um-hm. MORGAN: I met an awful lot of them but I--I can't remember their names. There's so many, you know, you don't--you remember some of their first names, but you don't remember their last name. DEATON: Do you recall any specific event about a person that got hurt or needed medical care about that time, that probably would not have lived had it not been for the people from the Frontier Nursing Service? MORGAN: Well, I don't re---don't recall there was a time, but there was several people that did get hurt that they got 'em out of here. DEATON: And took them to hospitals? MORGAN: Yes, took 'em to Lexington and Louisville. And-- DEATON: Do you think those people would have been taken out to one of those hospitals if the FNS hadn't been there? MORGAN: No. No, they wouldn't. Wouldn't have been no--been much chance to get 'em there. Let me go get a picture. [Interruption in taping] DEATON: Now, this is a photograph that you have of someone being taken down river on a-- MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON:--on a raft-- MORGAN: No, that's a boat. That's a boat. DEATON: So are they going down river to Krypton to catch the train? MORGAN: Yeah. Yeah. They--they called it their ambulance. DEATON: Um-hm. Do you re---hmm. Do you recall when--about when this picture was taken, what year? MORGAN: Twenty-seven or eight, I guess. DEATON: Is this Kermit--is this Kermit Morgan? MORGAN: No, that's my daddy. DEATON: Oh! And is--is Mrs. Breckinridge in here, or other people in that, do you know? MORGAN: That's--that's Mrs. Breckinridge and that is Martha Pruitt, her first secretary from Lexington. DEATON: And do--and they have a patient in here. Do you remember who that is? MORGAN: That's--that's their suitcases. DEATON: Oh. MORGAN: And they was going to--don't remember whether they was going to Louisville or Cincinnati. They had a heart patient and they had a--her housekeeper was--was aiming to have a child and they had to get her out. She couldn't--had to be operated on. DEATON: I see. MORGAN: And so I'd--I'd been hauling. I'd been to--I been to Krypton there. I--I got water-bound at Krypton, you see, with my wagon and I'd come through by Cutshin, MacIntosh and all them, through [Roots?] Creek and got home. The river had run down to across--across here and come another big tide just as quick as I--about time I got home, come another tide. And they had these patients and they had to get 'em out. My daddy had some lumber, and he--me and him made that boat. DEATON: How--the trip from Wendover to Krypton, about how far is that downriver like this in a boat? MORGAN: Oh, well, Krypton, I think, was fifteen mile from Hyden, so it'd be--that'd be three more from here is about eighteen mile. DEATON: In a boat like that, how long did it take to make the trip? MORGAN: They got to ----------(??) Trace Branch about--I guess at about four--four o'clock in the evening. Throught that--the rough water, the river was up a whole lot. It wasn't no tide, but it was up. And they had took the patients out here, that was at ----------(??) Trace Branch? DEATON: Yes. MORGAN: That's what they called Judy Whirl. DEATON: Judy's Whirlpool? MORGAN: That's above Judy Whirl. That's up in--above where--over there beside them boulders at Trace Branch, that shoal is there. And a big long shoal through there and it was rough, and there's a rock bar down this side of the river. And they--they put them out and took that boat through there. DEATON: Now, what time of the day did they leave on this trip? MORGAN: Early. They got there about four--about four o'clock, I guess. Anyway I went--I went, too. I took my mules and went through--back through the woods the way I come. Back to Trace Branch and got my wagon and went out. And now at Trace Branch I--I stayed up on Trace Branch. Kept wagons up there about a half mile up in there. And I went in there and got my wagon, and back down to the river and got 'em and took 'em to Krypton. It was way in the night when we got there. DEATON: How far was it from Trace Branch to the railroad station at Krypton? MORGAN: About four or five miles. About four mile. But, see, it was some ----------(??) across a big mountain down-- DEATON: So-- MORGAN:--down rough creek. Up one rough branch and down a rough creek. (laughs) DEATON: How long did the--did that last four miles take in a wagon? MORGAN: We got--I think we got there about--well, it was wintertime but it was--it was after dark. After dark. They got there in time to catch the down train, though. One of 'em went out there and passed the train. DEATON: That was the L and N Railroad? MORGAN: Yeah. I think it was about--must have been about seven--six, seven o'clock maybe. DEATON: Um-hm. Did you ever have--did you ever wonder why that the-- there were no railroads built into Leslie County? MORGAN: Yeah, I've wondered that. DEATON: Have you got any thoughts on it as to why there weren't any? MORGAN: Well, no. There--there was plenty of stuff in here to--for a railroad. You know, there's coal, but I--I always just thought that they was getting all they--all they could handle other places. They, you know, used to--the mines was down part of the time. No--no sale for coal. DEATON: Um-hm. Well, in the '30s when you were working, were you in Harlan County any time when they were having the United Mine Workers organization efforts there? MORGAN: No, I didn't work up there none then. I didn't work any up there--I worked there some in--in nineteen and thirty, four or five months. Then I come back, and then I wasn't back up there till '38 or '39. I went to Lynch, and I believe they was--the union was getting pretty strong then. I don't--I don't think they had any trouble there, though, and I don't remember whether they was out on a str---no, they wasn't out on a strike or we wouldn't have been working in the timber. It was '38 or '39 ----------(??) [microphone interference] that-- DEATON: The raft? MORGAN: Yeah, [below or blow?] the bridge. DEATON: The--any--were there any people in your family or any friends of yours that were in Harlan County from Leslie? MORGAN: Well, I knowed of three-- DEATON: During--during the '30s and--and when there were-- MORGAN: Yeah, there wasn't nobody in particular with me ----------(??) but I had some people over there and knowed a lot of people. Got acquainted with people. DEATON: Um-hm. Did they ever tell you very much about the trouble they were having? MORGAN: No. No, I never did--never did know too much about that union over there. DEATON: Um-hm. So you went back over there about 1939. How long did you stay there then? MORGAN: I stayed four or five months. Then I went to--went to Virginia, and I guess that was in 1940 when I went down there. DEATON: What was the reason for that? MORGAN: Went down there to work. DEATON: What? Did you work there for--for awhile? MORGAN: Yeah, I worked about eight months there, I guess. DEATON: Was that from a shipyard or what? MORGAN: No, it was--it was a housing project. DEATON: Government housing? MORGAN: Yeah. They was building a--I don't know what you call it. They was building a place they--they said to bring--bring soldiers back for 'em to recuperate and so on. DEATON: Oh, a rest and-- MORGAN: Rest and-- DEATON:--relaxation area? MORGAN: Yeah. Yeah. DEATON: Do you remember when we got involved in World War II and what your thoughts were about it, about Pearl Harbor and all of that? MORGAN: Well, I remember it but I--I wouldn't know just what my thoughts were now at that time, only I knowed--I knowed there'd be a war after the United States was--when--when they--they bombed that I knowed there would be a war. DEATON: Um-hm. Um-hm. Did you--how did you feel about the United States going to war again? Did you support the idea? MORGAN: Well, I--I--I thought they were doing the right thing. They done the only thing they could do, the way I thought. DEATON: Well, after you came back from Virginia, did you come back to Leslie County again? MORGAN: Yeah, and then I--then I went back to North Carolina the next year. The same company called us back, bunch of boys and men-- [End of Tape #1, Side #2] [Begin Tape #2, Side #1] MORGAN:--had worked down there. There was one boy went down there--the [Asher?] boy went down there and got a job and he come--they come--he come back in here and got a bunch of us. I was working at Wendover again when--when he--when he come got us. I was working on that--that building up there, the office building that's there now. DEATON: The one they call the Garden House? MORGAN: Yeah, the Garden House? DEATON: Was that after the first one burned down? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Were you here when that burned? MORGAN: No, I believe I was in Ohio. I believe that I was off somewhere, I don't remember. DEATON: Well, the--the jobs that you had on the government housing project--projects, how much did they pay you for that? MORGAN: They paid a dollar an hour then. DEATON: Was that for carpentry work? MORGAN: Yeah. Well, it wasn't--it wasn't a--I wouldn't call it expert carpenter work, it was just carpenter work though. We put on siding, asbestos siding. I was in the crew that done that. Asbestos shingles. The first one we done was--was a housing project. And then when we went back to North Carolina, we done a--that government job. DEATON: Well, what was the reason for the travel? Was most of the timber out of here by then? MORGAN: Huh? DEATON: The timber in--in Leslie County. Had most of that been harvested? Is that why you were traveling around for jobs? MORGAN: They just wasn't working it. DEATON: Ah. And did you do that for most of the war? MORGAN: No, I stayed two year up in Alaska. DEATON: What did you do in Alaska? MORGAN: Worked on government jobs. Worked one--I worked one contract out on a Navy job, and then Seabees come in and took it over and they terminated us. See, we had a contract when we signed up and the Seabees come in and took the job over and they terminated us all and anybody that wanted to could sign up on another big construction job. They had men there to sign them up, anybody that wanted to stay? DEATON: Um-hm. MORGAN: 'Course there was an awful lot of 'em been there that had their contracts about up and--and--and they wanted to come back. They'd been up there a year or two, and I--I signed up on a--with [J.F. Ackerson?]. I think they're out of Minnesota, I believe. And I finished--I finished that contract out. DEATON: Did you do work like that during most of the war? MORGAN: Well, I stayed up there two year and then I come back and went to logging again. DEATON: Here in Leslie County? MORGAN: See, logging after--after the war started logging picked up. I went to work for--for [Brashear's?] up here at--well, kind of that--off the farm up there. George ----------(??). What--where George -------- --(??) lives now. DEATON: Um-hm. Well, those ----------(??) companies that bought this--the timber that was harvested here and the companies that owned the mineral rights, did any of those plant tree seedlings to reforest the land? MORGAN: No, not any I knowed of. DEATON: Do you know why they didn't or-- MORGAN: No. DEATON: Do you know how much they paid for the timber rights and the min---and the mineral rights for the coal on the land here? MORGAN: Well, that--there's some of it been bought so long as I--some of it's been bought longer than I've been here. I think they paid about fifty cents an acre for it. DEATON: Do you know why the people sold it that cheaply? MORGAN: Well, they--they had plenty of it, I guess, and I don't--not much money, (laughing) I guess is what--what made the deal, I don't know. DEATON: Did you ever have anyone tell you that they didn't really believe the coal companies would be able to get the coal out of the mountains? MORGAN: Well, yeah, I've--I've--I've heared that. DEATON: Do you think it's true? MORGAN: Uh-uh. DEATON: Do you--do you think people actually believed it or-- MORGAN: Well, they might at that time. [Interruption in taping] DEATON: There were some people that sold their mineral rights that thought they were gonna get the money and--and would never actually lose their coal? MORGAN: Yeah. There's--there's probably a lot of 'em done that. DEATON: Um-hm. Do you remember who, in--in this area, came around? Was there a local person that came around and bought the mineral rights for those companies? MORGAN: No, they generally send an agent in from everywhere they was headquartered, probably Louisville, Frankfort, places like that. DEATON: Um-hm. And did most of--the people that sold that, could most of them read? Did they know-- MORGAN: Well,-- DEATON:--could they read and understand the contracts that-- MORGAN: I--I--I--I suppose they did. Yeah. DEATON: What type of schools did they have when you were growing up here? How far did you go in school? MORGAN: Fourth grade. DEATON: Um-hm. And where was the school located? MORGAN: Well, I went to the mouth of Short Creek and I went to Johns Creek, and I went some to town before we moved up here. I guess I went--I must have went about five year there. DEATON: Um-hm. And when you lived here, how long did it take you? Did you walk to school and back? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: How long did it take? MORGAN: Well, I d---I don't know. I wouldn't know that. Not--not long if we wanted to go, but it's untelling. You couldn't tell much about what a boy-- [Interruption in taping] DEATON:--see any purpose at all for getting an education here? There wasn't anything that you could-- MORGAN: No. DEATON:------------(??) here? MORGAN: Well, I went when--when I was--when I was small. I went 'cause I had to. And then when we got bigger, I dodged it all I could. (laugh--Deaton] DEATON: What did you do when you didn't go to school? Did you work? MORGAN: Yeah. And after I got--got about fourteen was big old long ----------(??) there in the fourth grade and I got tired of it. DEATON: You were fourteen? MORGAN: I guess it was--I--I don't know. It was probably--I think the--the fourth reader was all the reader I ever had. But it had a big arithmetic. DEATON: Was that the McGuffy Reader? MORGAN: Yeah. And I don't remember what kind of arithmetic it was. I'd been--I wonder if they was the same thing? DEATON: I don't know. MORGAN: I know it was a yellow-backed book. DEATON: Um-hm. Well, the--the school teachers that they had in Leslie County then, do you know what school they had gone to to get their training? MORGAN: Mostly Berea. Berea mostly. DEATON: And other people in the county that--that had gone to Berea, were there any people here that had jobs that were not school teachers that had gone to college or they had gone to Berea? MORGAN: No, not that I know of. DEATON: Oh! So it you didn't-- MORGAN: Might have been somebody in the bank or maybe something like that. DEATON: So as far as you knew, about the only thing you could do by going on to school was come back and be a school teacher. MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Do you remember--did you ever know how much they got paid for-- for teaching? MORGAN: I don't know. About twenty dollars a month, the best I remember-- DEATON: So-- MORGAN:--when I was going. DEATON:--so you could make a lot more money working in the log woods. MORGAN: Twenty, twenty-five dollars or something. DEATON: You could make more money in the log woods or-- MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON:--coal mines? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Okay. MORGAN: And I--might have been more than that, I don't know, but I think my mother--I think my mother just got about fifteen dollars a month. But I--I--I can't never remember her teaching any. DEATON: Well, what supplies did you have? Did they have paper and pencils here-- MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON:--in schools? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Did they have a slate? MORGAN: No, they didn't--they didn't use no slate. Just paper and pencil and blackboard. DEATON: Was the--well, was that easy to get? Could you get paper and pencil without-- MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON:--any trouble? MORGAN: That wasn't no trouble. DEATON: Well, when you were growing up, for the social life, what did-- did the people have parties or dances around here? What were those like? MORGAN: They was--they was pretty lively. DEATON: Well, where did--where did they have the parties at? Where did you go to the parties? MORGAN: People's houses. DEATON: And give me--yeah. Give me a description of one of those? You don't have to name anybody's house or anything. MORGAN: Well, they--they'd--they'd have a--they'd have a log-rolling or a corn-hoeing, foddering, and they'd--people would go in and work and then they'd--they'd--then they'd dance at night. DEATON: Um-hm. Give me a little better description on the dancing and partying part. MORGAN: Well, they--they just danced and hoorah-ed all night. DEATON: The girls too? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: So the social life was pretty active. Did they have one of those about every weekend? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Oh. So the--the people actually got together quite a bit and had a-- MORGAN: Yeah, they--they had that, and then they had--they had box suppers and they had--they used to have an awful lot of meetings on through the summer, you know, on the outside. DEATON: Was that church meetings? MORGAN: Yeah, church meetings? DEATON: Revivals? MORGAN: Baptizings and-- DEATON: Did the people have dances or parties after that--after those? MORGAN: Yeah. Yeah, they had--they had a--had a good time. Well, they- -they thought it was. They wouldn't--I guess it was. I--I enjoyed it as w---as well as I ever did anything I--I helped her, you know, after I got more--more things going. DEATON: Um-hm. Did they have any problems with law enforcement then, the county sheriff or anything? MORGAN: No, not--not as much as they do now, I don't think. DEATON: Um-hm. So they could enjoy themselves a little bit more without being interfered with? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Well, how about the law enforcement? Were the sheriffs around and available when you needed them? MORGAN: Well, you generally had--no, not--you couldn't just holler or call 'em on the phone altogether. 'Course they had phones but they were scattered far between. Part of the time they didn't work. DEATON: So a person that lived a distance out in the county, say, twenty, twenty-five miles, it would have been about an all-day trip for them to go get the sheriff? MORGAN: Yeah, they'd--they'd had to went on horseback-- DEATON: Did the people-- MORGAN:--when I growed up. DEATON:--did the people mostly take care of their own problems? MORGAN: Yes. DEATON: In the county-- MORGAN: Now, not if somebody got killed, and then they'd--they'd get the sheriff notified and they'd--they'd arrest 'em and take 'em in and try 'em, same as they do now. DEATON: And most people that you knew during that period, did they carry a gun for protection? MORGAN: Yes, sir. Yeah. DEATON: Was it--I--was it a common-- MORGAN: Lot of--lot of 'em did and lot of 'em didn't. DEATON: Um-hm. Do you think most of them found a real need to carry the gun? Did they actually need to carry it? MORGAN: Well, that'd be hard to say. (laughs) You can't know what--you can't know what the other feller's thinking all the time. He might have thought he needed something. If a man's packing a gun, you might think you need it and you may never need it. DEATON: Well, coming up after World War II, what did you work at here? MORGAN: After World War II? Well, after I come back from Alaska, I--I worked for Brashear Lumber Company. I worked there a year. I worked there in '46. Went there in April and left in April and went to Dayton. DEATON: Um-hm. And what did you work at there? MORGAN: I worked at Sunshine Biscuit. DEATON: Um-hm. How much did they pay you when you worked there? MORGAN: There? I--I don't remember. About a dollar and something an hour, I think it was. It wasn't too much. And I worked long hours. It wasn't hard work. I'd go in of a morning sometimes, if I felt like it, I'd stay till--stay two shifts. DEATON: Um-hm. Well, all the jobs that you went to, like in Alaska, Virginia, North Carolina, and back to Dayton and Detroit, if there had been work available here in Leslie County that you could have gotten a job at, would you have gone to those places? MORGAN: Well, I don't know. Probably would. DEATON: Just out of curiosity? MORGAN: Yeah. When I--when I went to Alaska, I--I had signed up to go to Maine. And--and somebody told me, said, "Let's go to Alaska." And I said I'd as soon go there as anywhere else and we went--we went in there. I went back in and he went with me to sign up. We went back in there and I told 'em I changed my mind, I wanted to go to Alaska, and they changed it. And this feller backed out on me. He never went. DEATON: Who was it? MORGAN: It was Red Sam Morgan. You ever hear tell of him? DEATON: No, I haven't. MORGAN: (laughs) He--he lives up at the mouth of Greasy. DEATON: Was he related to you? MORGAN: No, not--not that I know of. He's just a--he was one of them generations that's not a kin, I guess. DEATON: Well, in general, as far as Leslie County is concerned, what do you think that--that the people of Frontier Nursing Service has--have contributed to Leslie County that wouldn't have been available had they not been here? MORGAN: Well, they--they've--they've been an awful lot of help. They-- they--I think there's an awful lot of children that's growed up healthy that wouldn't have done if they hadn't have been--been here and give 'em treatments, shots, and stuff. DEATON: Um-hm. Do you know-- MORGAN: There's one of them--one of them--that picture I showed you, there's one of them patients was a heart patient. And they--they took him out and he lived a long time. I--he's--may--may even be still living, I don't know. DEATON: Um-hm. Do you know if--did Mary Breckinridge ever talk about, or did you know of her talking about other places that she would want to--to provide the same service? MORGAN: Well, she was--she was either coming here or to the mountains in the--the Ozarks, in Missouri or the Arkansas one. DEATON: Um-hm. Now, did she--did she mention that very much? MORGAN: Well, she mentioned it when she left here. When--but when my father got rough with her, that's where she was heading for and she said she was going back to the Ozark Mountains and--and put up a hospital. DEATON: Well, I--I understand that she was on her way out of Leslie County. MORGAN: She was. DEATON: She was leaving. MORGAN: She was. She couldn't get no land. She tried it--tried to buy it but she hadn't never run into him and he hadn't been to town for awhile, but somebody happened to come in and tell him about it and said, "She's leaving this morning." Well, he got up real early and went down there and caught her before she left town. She done had her horse hitched to ride back to the railroad. She done had her horses out there in the street. DEATON: And that's-- MORGAN: And then he told her that he'd let her have a place if it suited her, and she come back up to have a look at it. DEATON: Um-hm. So you feel--you feel your father-- MORGAN: My--yeah. Yeah. DEATON:--was a major contributor of her being here? MORGAN: Yeah, she was--she was leaving and if--if he hadn't stopped her, nobody else wouldn't, I don't--don't think. In fact, he stopped her on her way out 'cause she was already on her way. DEATON: Did she ever mention that to you at any time? MORGAN: Yes. Yes, she--she did. DEATON: What did she say about it? MORGAN: Well, she said that she was glad that he--that he got down there before she left, that she got up with him before--before she left. Said she really liked it here, better than she did in the Ozarks. She'd-- see, she'd been--she was just locating. She had been there and--and I think probably she had lived in Missouri awhile. They'd lived all over the whole country, her and her father. Had been in England. DEATON: Did she ever mention how she felt about the possibility that she might have to leave here because she couldn't find any land? MORGAN: Well, I don't know about that. DEATON: Um-hm. Did you know her father when he was here? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Can you describe him for me? What kind of person he was? MORGAN: Well, he--he was a nice old man. He--he was pretty old. He was a Civil War major. DEATON: Did you do any work for him? MORGAN: No, I didn't work any with him. I was around where they was working though. He kept two fellas with him all the time. He'd--he made all kinds of little ditches and walls around there. DEATON: Who worked for him then? Was it-- MORGAN: That was-- DEATON:--Kermit that did that? MORGAN: Huh? DEATON: Was it--did Kermit Morgan work for him? MORGAN: No, it was [Julia?] Adams and Davey Adams. They're both-- they're both dead now, I think. DEATON: About what time was that when he was here doing that? MORGAN: He was here in the '30s, I think, some. DEATON: Um-hm. Well, what about the 1950s? What did you work at then? MORGAN: I was working in the mines. I worked in the mines from 194--- '48, I guess, to 1960-'61. DEATON: Did you retire at '61? MORGAN: You mean on Social Security? DEATON: Yeah. MORGAN: I--I--I drawed it at '62. Took that cut on it. DEATON: Where did you work? Did you work in the mines in Leslie County-- MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON:--from '49. MORGAN: Yeah. I worked, I don't know, must have been about fifteen year, from '47 to--'47 to '61. DEATON: Who did you work for? MORGAN: I worked for the Morgan Coal Company. See, there was a whole bunch of companies right--that was in together here. There was Liberty, Begley and Connolley, and Debbie Two and Three, Kentucky Mountain. And they was all--they was all the same men. And Gillus Morgan was--I started working for him. I started working for him in '4---sometime in '47. And then that's when I--that's when I started working in the mines was in '47. DEATON: What were the salaries during that period? MORGAN: They started at a dollar an hour according to what you done. DEATON: Well, then that--was that a union mine? MORGAN: No. There wasn't none of 'em union mines. DEATON: Do you know what the union was paying? Was it about the same wage or-- MORGAN: Pretty well the same. Pretty well the same. There wasn't too much difference in it. Probably paying a little more. But they--oh, I don't know, I was--I was thinking about a little union they--they organized a mine over at Wooten's Creek. I was thinking about that. I--but I don't know what the union was paying at in Perry and Harlan and them places, the United Mine Workers. I don't know what they was getting. DEATON: And--and you worked in the min on Wooten's Creek? MORGAN: No, I didn't work over there. They had one over there, the Connolley's did. They was in on this Hyden--around Hyden, too. DEATON: Um-hm. Well, what types of jobs did you do with those? MORGAN: I drove a team most of the time. DEATON: Hauling the coal out of the room? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Well, how late did they use those horses? MORGAN: Huh? DEATON: Were you--how--when did they quit using mules to haul coal out? MORGAN: Along in--I don't know, about on up in the '50s sometime. Last I knowed of any. I drove four mules and a pony. DEATON: All hitched together? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: How many tons of coal could they pull out in one load? MORGAN: Let's see. Six, three--around ten ton. DEATON: And that was on--on rails with the small-- MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON:--cars? MORGAN: Yeah. A car held a ton and a half they said, what they claimed, but they--they held more than that. But they--what they counted. DEATON: About what were the size of those cars? How high were they? MORGAN: They was old wood cars. They was--they was up about [gestures] that high. DEATON: Somewhere around two and a half feet or so,-- MORGAN: Yeah,-- DEATON:--or something? MORGAN:--something like that. Then they had a flange board come out on 'em, you know. They was pretty wide at the top. DEATON: Well, how--how large was the seam of coal that--that you worked most of the time? MORGAN: Five foot, five and a half. DEATON: Did you ever work in any coal that you couldn't stand up in? MORGAN: Yeah, a little. DEATON: What was it, about two foot thick? MORGAN: Thirty--about thirty-eight inches, I guess. DEATON: Oh. Was about ten hours a normal work day in one of those mines? MORGAN: No, they just worked eight hours in these around here. But if there's something special, you know, if you--if you just didn't--if you worked overtime you got it, over eight hours. I drove that team, I don't know, two--two or three year. Two year I know, maybe a little over, and then I went to run the motor. I run a motor then the rest of the time I worked in the mines. DEATON: What was that for? What did you do with the motor? MORGAN: Haul coal. DEATON: Oh, it had the motor cars then? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Oh, okay. MORGAN: And had a--had a electric motor. You know, a trolley motor. I know you've seen 'em around the mines. Do you--are you ever around the mines any? DEATON: Um-hm. MORGAN: They've about quit using them now. Use belts mostly. DEATON: Well, the people that worked in the coal mines, did you notice anything about them that was different than workers that worked in factories or on those housing projects or anything? MORGAN: No. DEATON: Did you ever think about the danger of being in a mine? MORGAN: Well, I knowed it was dangerous but I'd been in dangerous places before, it just didn't--it didn't bother me none. Did some people, but-- DEATON: What did the--the ones that were concerned about something happening, what did they say about it? MORGAN: Huh? DEATON: The ones that were--that were afraid something may happen to them in the mines, what would they say about it? MORGAN: Well, they just said they was--they was, you know, afraid to go under a place and so on, but they generally always went. Most of 'em- -most of 'em, after they was in there awhile, they--they got to where they didn't pay no attention to it. DEATON: Do you feel like they were a pretty safe place to work? MORGAN: Yeah. [End of Tape #2, Side #1] [Begin Tape #2, Side #2] DEATON: Do you think most of the miners felt that way? MORGAN: Yeah, the biggest part of 'em do. They'd rather work in there than work outside, the biggest part of 'em has. It ain't 'cause it--once a man works in 'em, why, he'd rather work in there than work outside. I think the biggest part of 'em feels that way. DEATON: Do you know why? Why would they feel that way? MORGAN: Well, I wouldn't know. DEATON: Did you ever feel that way, that you'd rather work in the mines than outside? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Have you ever thought about why you felt that way? MORGAN: Well, one thing, in there if you--you've got a certain job to do, or I always had to do it, and you do it and that--and that was it. DEATON: So no---nobody bothered you. None that-- MORGAN: No. DEATON:--if you did your job, none of the bosses-- MORGAN: No. DEATON:--bothered-- MORGAN: No. In the wintertime, you--you don't have to scuffle that snow and ice all day long. You'd have trouble with maybe getting to the mines and back, but that's it. And in the summertime, it's--it's the same. It's the same year-round for one thing. 'Course it may not be so good on a feller's health in there, but I don't know about that, but-- DEATON: Well, do you know if your health was affected by working in the coal mines or not? Did they have any of the safety equipment when you worked in them? MORGAN: Well, nothing but the shoes, hat, cap-- DEATON: They didn't have any of the--the dust mask or any of that? MORGAN: Well, yeah, they had 'em. DEATON: Did the miners use them? MORGAN: Some. Some of 'em did. Some didn't. DEATON: The ones that didn't use 'em, did they ever say why they didn't use them. MORGAN: Said they smothered them. They just--they just bothered 'em. You're supposed to wear goggles but if you put them things on, they'd fog up and you couldn't see nothing. DEATON: Oh, after you began to sweat? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Oh, I see. Yeah. MORGAN: And that dust, you know, would settle on 'em. DEATON: Do you think most of the workers that worked in the coal mine, did they ever really think that they were gonna be hurt by breathing the coal dust or anything? MORGAN: I don't know. I don't know as I ever heared anybody mention that. DEATON: So they weren't-- MORGAN: Not unless they took a notion they wanted to draw black lung and ----------(??) was killing 'em. DEATON: Um-hm. But that was much later. That was what? That--that was later in the 1960s, wasn't it? MORGAN: Yeah. They all got the--(laughs) about everybody (laughs) would--was having chest trouble and dust was killing 'em and everything else after they passed that law. DEATON: How do you feel about that? MORGAN: Huh? DEATON: How did--how--what did you think about when they passed the law and everyone began to apply? MORGAN: Well, I didn't--I went and signed up. I didn't think I'd get it, but I went and signed up anyhow. Everybody else was and I--I figured I'd--see, you were supposed to have been fifteen year. Well, I had but fifteen year (laughs) and I just went and signed up. DEATON: Uh-huh. Did you get the black lung? MORGAN: Yeah, I got it. DEATON: What was the process you go through to get the black lung. MORGAN: Well, they x-ray you and then they give you a breathing test. And that--that's all. DEATON: I've heard some people tell a couple of stories about filing off silver dollars into tobacco and rolling up and smoking it for the x-rays to turn out positive on the black lung. Have you heard any of those? MORGAN: No, I never did hear none of that. DEATON: Did you hear of anybody trying to do anything similar to that to get the benefits? MORGAN: No. No, I never did, more than just having them--having them chest pains. Like--like the boy was down there. We was digging a grave and he had it down by his shoulder and he just put his hands up on it that way and he slipped hisself out. And he said, "Boy," said, "them Social Security pains is killing me." (laughs) He hurt his--hurt his shoulder lift---lifting himself out. He said, "Them old Soc--- Social Security pains has done gone." People was complaining, you know, everything was hurting 'em. DEATON: Um-hm. Well, when--you were digging a grave at the time? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Well, with funerals and so forth when people die in the area, do most of--the family members, do they mostly take care of having the grave dug? MORGAN: Well, just the neighbors and friends, and so on would dig it. DEATON: Does the--the local preacher or minister usually the one that preaches-- MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON:--the sermon? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Do you think-- MORGAN: Every---everyone that's--one that's a--some of the family that belong to the church and they generally get them. DEATON: Um-hm. Yeah. How do you feel in general about the mountain people and--and religious practices? Do you think most of them are fairly religious? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Do you think most of 'em go to churches or-- MORGAN: Well, I think most of 'em is--is more religious than they let on. A lot of 'em. There's a lot, they--they--they've got some good points, I don't care what they do. They--they still--the--the biggest part of 'em is accommodating. And--and time of disaster or anything, they--they'll go all out. DEATON: Um-hm. So you think most of the people would agree with you that you don't really have to belong to church and go to a church every Sunday and all that to be a good religious person? MORGAN: Well--well, I--I--I don't know whether they agree with it or not, but that's the way the--the biggest part of 'em is. That is the ones that don't go to church. They--there's an awful lot of good people, I--I'd say, that don't go to church for one reason or--not because they can't to one or--or something like that. DEATON: Have you been acquainted with any of the--the church organizations that come into the area and establish churches to provide help for people? MORGAN: No. DEATON: How do you feel in general about people from outside the Kentucky mountain area coming in to a place like Leslie County? MORGAN: Well, I think it's all right. If it suits them, far as I'm concerned, it suits me. DEATON: Um-hm. Do you think most of 'em-- MORGAN: It's a free country, you know. DEATON: Uh-huh. Do you think most of 'em in general--or do you think the people here generally accept those people as really trying to help them out? MORGAN: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the majority of 'em do. Yeah. Yeah, the biggest part. DEATON: Well, you've traveled throughout a great part of the United States and Alaska, which wasn't a state at that time, I don't believe. MORGAN: No, it wasn't. DEATON: And what made you want to c---want to stay here? Was it just your family people that lived in Leslie County that made you want to come back? MORGAN: Well, yeah. Yeah. DEATON: Is there anything that you see, or is there any feeling that you have about the mountains that makes you like it here? Is--do you have any type of feeling here in the mountains that you don't have when you're away from 'em? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Could you describe it? MORGAN: Well, you feel at home if you're raised here. When you're away from here--when you're away from here you better have--you better have some kind of means. It don't matter what happens to you, you better have some kind of means to take care of yourself. Here if a man gets down, gets crippled or--or something and--they's always ways to get help. DEATON: So you feel people here help each other? MORGAN: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I do. DEATON: Well, in the mountain areas, when people have someone in the family--once they begin to get old, or if they're an invalid, or if they have a young child in the family that's mentally retarded, they usually keep them in the family, don't they? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Have you noticed a difference in the ways that people took care of those people here, as opposed to the ways people-- MORGAN: No, I never--I never did notice nothing like that away from here. I never--just never had no occasion to. DEATON: Um-hm. Have you known of any family that's lived in the area that had an--an invalid in the family or--or a real old person, and they put them in some kind of a--of a home or something? MORGAN: No, not--not that I know of at all. DEATON: Um-hm. How do you feel about that? Do you think they should keep them in the family? MORGAN: Well, I think they ought to. I think they ought to keep 'em. DEATON: You think-- MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON:--most people here would agree with you? MORGAN: Yeah, the biggest part of 'em. The biggest part of 'em done all they could for the families. I guess there's some that didn't, but I think when a feller done about all he could by ever who he'd been doing for, should do, too. DEATON: Um-hm. [Interruption in taping] DEATON: The people--have you heard the--the criticism--some of the criticism about the mountain people, that they're backward and--and maybe a little less smart than people outside the mountains? MORGAN: Yeah, I've heared that. DEATON: Do you know why they say it, or do you know why that's an opinion? MORGAN: Well, there's--there's a lot of people that's not educated here for one thing, I guess. And I don't know-- DEATON: How do you feel about that? Would you--does it hurt you personally when you hear that? MORGAN: Well, I'd just as soon not hear it. DEATON: Um-hm. Well, how do you-- MORGAN: But there--there's people here that--they--they might be backward and--but I never have been no place yet but what I didn't run into all kinds of people. DEATON: So you think those-- MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON:--people here are kind of-- MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON:--singled out? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: And you think that education is the major reason that those opinions are expressed about mountain people? MORGAN: Well, I don't know if that's that or--or--or what. I don't--I really don't know. But it's always--it always has been, you know, hicks. Hicks and so on. DEATON: Well, the--the federal government, the--the programs that they've had like VISTA [Volunteers In Service To America] and--and those, do you think those--that those programs have helped the mountain people out any? MORGAN: Well, I guess they have in a way. DEATON: Um-hm. Do you know of any--of any one in particular that they've helped out a lot? MORGAN: No, I can't say as I do. I--I really wouldn't know. DEATON: How do you-- MORGAN: 'Course there's a lot of people that, you know, is making a lot of money out of it. DEATON: Well, do you think they're the people that really needed the help? MORGAN: No. I'd say the people needs help don't get twenty percent of the dollar that's put up to help 'em, maybe not that much. That's what I think. It all goes--it all goes before it gets to 'em. DEATON: The people--the--the help that the people have gotten here from the roads and--and so forth, were most of the roads that were built through here built in the 1930s? MORGAN: You mean just the old roads or--or since they been grading and so on? DEATON: Yeah, since they been grading. MORGAN: They was mostly built in--in the sixteen year that George [Wooten?] was in. DEATON: Oh, as Kennedy's-- MORGAN: I believe it was ----------(??). DEATON: As county judge? MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Um-hm. Do you think most of the people feel as though he was responsible for that, or someone else was? MORGAN: Well, he was mostly responsible for it, I guess. He was county judge and they built--well, there was a record of it. He--they built seven hundred and some--some--some miles--some miles. I don't know how many. DEATON: Um-hm. Well, when-- MORGAN: But--but that--that wasn't--that wasn't graded road. I mean, that was just blocked-out roads where there wasn't no roads. Used to, wasn't no roads up these creeks on the creek bed. Almost any creek you go up now has a--has a creek. Now they try to ----------(??) right in the real head of it. DEATON: Um-hm. Um-hm. About what time did the telephones get through out here? I know they were in Hyden in--by about 1930 or earlier. But when the people the people out in the county started to get them, when was that? MORGAN: That was in the '60s. DEATON: Um-hm. And what about TV? When--do you remember or do you recall about the year that you got your first television? MORGAN: No, I don't. Must have been--I really don't remember. DEATON: Um-hm. How about the newspapers? Have you ever read newspapers much? MORGAN: I used to till I got to I couldn't see. DEATON: Which ones did you get, the local paper mostly? MORGAN: Yeah, and Louisville paper. DEATON: The Courier Journal? MORGAN: Yeah. Courier-Journal. My mother used to take that--let's see, is it Globe--Globe-Democrat. It was--it was--it was a Missouri paper. St--. St. Louis Globe Democrat. DEATON: Do you know why she got that one? MORGAN: No, (laughing) I don't. I don't have no idea. DEATON: Did she know someone from Missouri? MORGAN: No. She had a sister that went out there and she--she could have told her that it was a good paper or something. And there's been a paper down here since, oh, way back, for years at Thousand Sticks. DEATON: Well, the Frontier Nursing Service, do you still feel the same way about them now that you used to? MORGAN: Yes. 'Course they--they--well, no, I--no, I don't but I don't-- I don't know many of 'em no more. DEATON: Do you know-- MORGAN: And I don't know--I wouldn't know nobody hardly in the hospital now. And I don't know where I'd know--I wouldn't know none of 'em at Wendover. Well, I guess I'd know Peggy and maybe some of the cooks that's been there a long time. But the new people that's up there, I wouldn't know any of 'em. DEATON: Do you feel as though the county people still feel about them the way now that they did years ago? MORGAN: I--I don't know. I never have heared nobody mention that. The only--about the only persons I know now that--that I know as a person to know is--is Kate Ireland and Miss [Condile?] that's connected--well, Miss [Condile's?] not connected with 'em now, I don't reckon. DEATON: Nurses with the FNS, did any of 'em ever come around and visit your home? MORGAN: The Frontier Nurses? DEATON: Um-hm. MORGAN: Yeah. DEATON: Do you have any idea how long it's been since one of 'em was here? MORGAN: Well, it's seven or eight year, I guess. No, it's not been that long. I don't know there's------------(??)--I don't know. [Kooser?] I-- DEATON: [Kooser?]? MORGAN: [Kooser?], I guess. DEATON: [Mossie?]? MORGAN: Yeah, [Mossie?]. I guess she was about the last one that were here. DEATON: Now, did she come by for a medical reason or-- MORGAN: Yeah, I--I--I believe she did. I don't--I really don't know. I know that they--they took the children to her all the time for as long as she was up at Wendover. She was the last one that was--was there, and I guess she'd been a Marine though before she was ever with--over here or not. DEATON: Well, is there anything else about the Frontier Nursing Service or about things that happened in the county that I haven't asked you about, that you'd like to tell me about? MORGAN: No, I--I guess not. DEATON: Okay. Thank you, Ed. MORGAN: You're welcome. [End of Interview] Ed Morgan's father made land available to Mary Breckinridge for the establishment of FNS headquarters at Wendover. Morgan discusses the building of Wendover in the l920s and comments upon his acquaintance with Breckinridge. He talks about transportation of seriously ill patients in the early days of the organization and his own assistance with such trips. Besides school experiences and social activities, Morgan relates his background in logging and coal mining.

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