Image 1 of Kentucky gazette (Lexington, Ky. : 1789), April 2, 1802

uj j i WjgiaBpyBgaagBi-UMgjjjgju-i-L- L j.' j;.y yjtui wwjM.a.'.iMiifliMaaagMiaaj iilia4!UM 'y"r''ZBTSXZffWlWtl'J&lX'Ui2JE3tTZ 'JH'JWiQ THE KENTUCKT GAZETTE. No. 8 FRIDAY, April it. LEXINGTON: Printed CONGRESS OF the UNITED STATES. SENATE. Thursday, January DE 14, 1802. BATE Mr. Breckinridge's motion to repeal tbe ail passed last session, 'for a new organization of tbe On Judiciary System. Mr. Brcckim idge in continuation'' The gentleman from Maffachufetts has conceded a point, which is at variance with the principal ground he has taken, He ad- , mits, is a jud0e in a particular diftridt bs incompetent from infamty, difab'ility, or other fjfficient cauie to perform his duties, Congress night repeal so much of the law as relates to his diftuct, and thereby put down that judge. How is this? Is a law can be repealed, and a iudge put down, beaufe he is unable to discharge the duties of his office, cannot a law be repealed and a judge be put down, where Is because a he has no duties to, discharge. juJe who cannot d.fcharge the duties actually alii ;n.d him, (although by the aft of government) maybe difpenied with, is it sound rea foning to say, that you cannot dispense with a judge, although you have aboliShed his duties? Again, pui Suing the gentleman's own csfe, is fart of a law can be repealed, and a paiticular diftridt and judge put doivn, what s, is it that arrests your power, a to all the and the whole corps of judges J Here Mr. Jona. Mason role to explain ; and laid the gentleman had misunderstood him. The idea he intended to convey was, that is congress had power to put down one ludge or one diftnct, they had power to put down all he courts and judges, but that they had no power to do e slier. Mr. Breckinridge "aid, he was sorry he had misunderstood the gentleman ; he ha I so Doted hi observation ; but he would then beg leave to notice an observation of the gentlewhich applies to tffis man from New-Yorpart of the subject. That gentleman has admitted, that you may new model your courts for tbe benefit of tbe people ; but you cannot affect the judges ; for they are in (to use his expreflion) under the constitution; and he contends that not only the 1st see. of the 3d art. is imperative, but also the 8th see. of 1st art. which gives to congress the " power to constitute tribunals inferior to the court." This last fedtion gives to congrsfs the power also to pass bankrupt laws ; naturalization laws, tax laws, Sec. &c. Are all these powers imperative also ? And aster you have eftablifheda post road, pafied'abank-ru- jt law, or a tax law, are they allirrepealable and are all the officers created by them in also under the constitution ? The same construction applies to all ; and (hews them all to be discretional powers. But this modification is to be for the benefit of the people. Can it be for th? benefit of the people ;:ever to abolish courts ? Two instances have been aheady cited. And what principle is it, which ought solely to actuate Iegiflators in enacting, modifying or repealing any law, but the good of the people ? Gentlemen really argue as is they cbnfidered courts made for the judges and not for the people. Suppose this subject could be difcuffed by the people and the judgis, what would be the language of each. The people would say, thefc additional courts are totally useless. The judges would reply, (is they hold the same opinious, that the gentlemen in opposition do) that they are not useless, for they tend, to terror and kesp men honest : The people alledge there is no business for them to transadt: The judges answer, that the country is increasing fast in population and there 'will be business perhaps bye and bye : The people contend they ought not to incur an expence without some advantage : Their honors reply, it amounts to but one cent a man, and is not worth growling about : The people however declgre their determinatien 'to abolish these courts as things for which they have no use : The judges then reply, in the language of the, gentleman from New-Yoi" You are a den of robbers, your constitution is gone, and all men will sly your shores." The gentleman from Maffachufetts admits, tTi" president has power to remove at pleafqre all officers appointed by him but the judges, but does not see the force of my application of it. I apply it in this way : Although these officers have a right to hold their offices athe will of the president, and the legifla-tur- e cannot remove them during the continuance of their offices, yet the legislature can remove without the will of the president, by abtfisbm their offices. In case, for example, t'.r extife law is repealed, what will become o:the Jupsrvifrfl s, and other offic-r- s created ty'thatilw f They will go out with the law ; fcr an eJcringuifhi is it 01 their duties will carry wan fxunlm of their effiees, whef the p eiu;nt Willi it or no. - dff-tnct- k; "v. rc k, by DANIEL BRADFORD, (On Mai x 2 1802. 7 Street J Vol. XV. price Two Dollars per annum, taito'ih advance. j.it seems, foreign and irrelevant to the subject. They were, it 11 tr ae, but the gleannigs,as the gentlemen, who have preceded me lett htt'e for mi. to aniwer. But, peimit me for afingle moment to attention to the real merits of this question, and ask, have the arguments, been fauly and fatisf ctonly antwered by th gjntlerreu -. tl e eppofition ; artimclits which went to tl e many d.fficulties and ablurditis vhich vouldgicw out ot tbe cenfhtut c n, under the condiudtion agairft which I cones is also infilled on by suggestions that invafioi s may hapn, Sc that miuirtcti-on- s tended ; wh.ch v.ent to fhevv, tht the conftitution could only be t.uly and ration, l!y may also lnppcn ; that confequentlv great levenues will be wanti.i.,, and conkquuitly construed to secure the inu pendency of a numerous couiti to intone their collection. judge in office, during the continuance of that office; which went to fhevv, that the power of This is reafomnff at a vcrv jrreat distance in al deed from tlie Subject, to prove itsutilit). congress to eiect inferior courts was and was therefore neceffar iy accompaliut am wilting to indul e the gentleman " and adn f, that mvafion will happen, andan-iiml- h nied by the povvei to abolish them ', that by debt, and to an 8 per cent usurer I the construction contended for, sinecure offispare your gravity, and that of the cc is he chooses, met iniuiitit ons quarterly , I will then contend, that until the ces for life would be elected under the conby refraining to examine th finnl mittee, tudeas to the first two objects. What likeness, popuLtir i of America amounts to five times ftitution ; that the absurdity of an officer is there between the falaiy ot a judge, and the th- - pru.nt number; we mall not Hand in without an office, would exill ; that the pownational debt ? The national debt is a titcd ncd of as many iudj.es as there now are, er of legifiation on judicial, subjects, would in jufhee on all the subjects which efftdt be anefted; indeed destroyed ; and that right ; aright not accruing for fervicta which tod iiin c,n r ,l,tullv uder the pieUnt conit.tation it would produce the extraordinary phenomemay be rendered, but for services 01 money non in our government, of- - an officer not actually rendered or advanced. It is a debt, be carra(l to fc.eial adjudication. Th- - r i.tknan from New-Yor- k has favoi-e- J amenable to your laws, to your conihtution, the confederation for which we have aclrow-Icdje- d h Snothcr argumenton this head, not or to the people themselves ? I appeal to genuo to have received, and for the d h re of which we have pledged ouifelves. It is a adw.tiud to the sear', but to the pride of tlemen, it these have been fairly and fatisfac-t- or They have not. !y anfvercd ? debt we are under mora' obligations to pay, h -- the perl', and asks is the paltry additiMr. Baldwin ot'Geoigia, obRrved, th?C ving previously rectived from the creditors.it;, onal txpTice ought to have any weight, when it canro amount to mere than one cent a 111 the seat with which he had been honors J oy equivalent. Here ftinds the case of the which is said to be opposite ? Is that a man. Ittnfwer sir, tint one cent a man will the senate during the preceding part of this people ; but tins .s debate,hi3 duty had obliged him top ypaitui veiled right ? Is that a debt fajvAthich the not to bi.fure opprefi-thcommunity have received an equivalent ? It a very u'fair way of apj eating to the ability lar attention to r entlemen who re'i to eff r is neither. It is a debt whicTi from its aauue of th" n uple, by (hewing them, among the the.i opinions : he had felt himielf pleas dad faith cannot stand pledged to pv, 1000 uers which compo.e theaggiegate ot inftr acted by one of the molt lumirous ducts-- . the public ' lions, in I oth vievvi ot the qucfimn, that ha what ea.h man'1! proportion except so far iKlly ZZ the services actually per- - their toimed recuire : it beini? dependanr-i-" its ve- - of on; vt v small item. But as that honci- - had ever witnefied, which he hopd and trus" ' . ' senate to a jfv.fi'1 anel .: uii A. -; t.u ue jcrvii-ciy icat-iujjcriurmeu ; and H'e gcnleman has told ns, "that he tonfi- - ted would guide the government reihnpc on the reason of proper result. In this lute slat e of the d whivh may be dispensed Wi th when th y are a;;s ! ot h m to to no longei wanted. m?n as ; jii! ism," I Should iuppofe with dae bates it could not be expected Is the case of the 8 per cent usurer more defereuce to iKj. that the better wav would il able to contribute any thing new cr impo- opposite ? Is the occasions of men induce be, to overn this rehire man, to lrrreiic ,1 tant. i5nt as gentlemen nan 10 cencrally P;els tiltlr opinions, ho lVulty il 'nuSllt Pr0P" to them to reioi t to the hoards of usurers, it is a the a,mv rather than the nid'iotf w Withhold a public delation of voluntary aft ; they know its intent and con- thou'id regulars. nrnrlvrt.tV.MnrTJ fluences, and they ought in justice to be mike US as hnnp-f- r! Alfre'o fnt.ii-rt- . on4 l,.v'1, ouefi'' the ran?e rif this question ard bound by their contract. Although Shylock v culd cc.ft Ub only S 01 4 dollars a head. may not be entitled to his pound of sit fh, vet 1 Its too is a kind of terror familjrr 1:1 counthe field of argument had been made' mo.ecj he is intitled to his usury and mtereft. And tries l.ke Alfred's : but an army of judges tenfive thanftudtly related to the quefhrn the case of the petty usurer stands on the is a rifrt pxpenment, as v.e have ben told but they might be ufefal in leading to a final same ground, with all these important ufur-er- s, this law is ; and was reiervd for the pohti determination on the fuoject rf the refrluticri who loaned at 8 per cent theii monev and ci-ot taele our enlu'atent i tirws. now under consideration. The remarks that , flock to the United States, dunner her late ujcn nas ocen i'nA about tbe rardtliip had been made of improper motives and preparations to sight the Fiench. which will on the one Tide and on the other, eitl r to judges, who have quitted The gentleman from New-Yor- k lucrative employments and t..kep seats on the that there Was an intention to urge forwaid expreffes his utter astonishment at the idea of judges bench, considering them as permanent provi- - the powers of the government, t it was car-- s, and courts being too numerous ; and refers to lions. (Ji.e trenlleman describes thm as a ' ned altogether bevond its nnn 01 tr t the example of Alfred, whose courts and veneralle set of men ben I ng under the , there was an inveterate system ot oppof tion judges were so numerous, and well orgaweight of yeais, and not poffeffing the agili- - ,, to it, which sought notliin0 less th n its over- nized, and had imposed such terror into his ty 01 polt-bo: another, as men who have throw, he Should take no notice of, as th y kingdom, that a purse of gold might lay in been induced te abandon the active and In- - i( had alreadv been extended fart! er Mian he h d safety on the high way. I lemember reading crative puifuits of the law. Take them as j wiShed. His respect for worthy' gentlemci , long since of these bundled courts, courts leet, pourtrayed by either gentleman. Is they are .j with the greater art ot whom e had so Iono-mecourts baron, &c. snd is I am not mistaken, of the first description, there can be lit- - ,! labored in our public counc '., h.s respect f v sir, he had a court of chivalry too, of much tie hardship in permitting them to return to the people whom they repitfented,aud for tl e about the same vakie and advantage in his that State of tranquility and retirement, from j! ftatc legislatures who had on thi occafi a kingdom, as yoiir additional courts are heie. which th'-- mud have been no doubt reluc- - piefened them to their fellow citiit.ns. it is But is the gentleman meditates such extenfi-o- n tant.v r.awn; and to which their age and be presumed, fi'om fnll ce of their and perfection in our judicial fyflem, whv infirmities mull again invite their return. Is talents and virtues, forbade hi 11 to entertain not resort to the fountain head and take exthey are men of the last description, can they any doubt of their def.re to promote the b;ft ample from Moses, who is certainly a higher notieadily rettirn to those same active & lucra interests of their country, ind to piJ'erve our authority. He, sir, eftablilhed his rulers or tive puihiits which they have quitted ? Have excellent constitution, which they are alt judges, of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties th eir ti'l-nand faculties, for the purfiuts to j sworn to support. Is at any time obfervati-hic- h and of tens ; and men too, says the book, hathev were bred, been palsied, by a seat j ons different from tlufe escaped h tn, he h inei ting covetousness ; that is, I presume, havmo for a fmije yeai on the bench ? and can fiat they would be conlidered as the no falanes. But I take it, that both Alfred unfit jeer's derangement of theif affairs be of his own infirmity, and not the result of and Moses had a wider ranjre in leciflation retnbuted only, by a peniionof 2000 dollars deliberate reflection. His own "e 'alop-ni-othin this senate, and theiefcre their legula-tion- s a ye-i- r for life ? Such calculations and deon such subjects was, that it 15 th; naur cannot be very applicable- mands must illy comport with the character of all delegated power to increaf. : it has The gentbmen both fiom New-Yor- k and of those of the i ft description ; and they been very aptly said, to be like the fcrev .n Connecticut have preffed upon us the policy are pool compliments indeed to the talents, mechan-c; it holds all it gains, and every of increasing courts and judges, to prevent legal acquirements, and legal (landing of the turn gams a little more ; thcpowei ! -- eps con-1'- ; crimes and wrongs, to protect the weak second. But no hardship on the side ftantly accumulating, till it becomes absolute against the strong, and to insure virtue and of the community ! Is it enough for them Iv insupportable, and then falls in ruins in f humanity 2mong the people. I deny both to' be told by these judges, true it is, you have tremendous crash, and the accumulation b' the pi opofition and inference drawn from it, established an useless set of courts ; but we gins again; so that the hiftcry of civil sot' t'li s but a general view of these v, il waves i tns, in the extent contended for. From whence, have been lucky enough to get into office, the I ask, do gentlemen draw theii authority for constitution protects us there, and ret us out lowing each other, oftentimes in dreadfi ' SckS such extensive legislation ' From whence ari-fis you can ' I 'doubt, sir, this loafoning would ' ceflion. That this was the tendency of fr their power" to pass thefc laws to prevent not be iatistaciory to men poitejTing common ety, he thought appeared in feme meafu crimes, to piotect the weak against the strong honesty and the ordinary notions of right and from our own fliort hiflory, whether viewed in and to p'unifh the guilty ? Not from the conwrong. It would not, however, be taken as relation to our State of federal governments ; futation, I will fafcly affirm ; for under it, ja fatisfadtory set off against the 50,000 dol- - Several of them had alrendy made considerabut 3 or 4 fpectes of crimes are pun'fhable lars annually. ble advances in this couife ; he knew ct none laws : to wit,.treason, p,racies and of them that had declined. Though he hot d has conihe gentlem.n from New-Yor- k ?nd truftedjthat this fatal progrefficn vrould felonies on the high seas, offences against the tended Strongly against the idea vhich he laws of nations, and counterfeits of the be Slowei in ouf country, than it had per is entertained, of inueafing the or coin of the United States. These power and, influence of the States, by IcSTen-in- g been before on the face of tbe earth, and that constitute their powers on the subject of criit would allow tons many ages of' -- eat politiyour federal courts. minal junfpruderce ; and are the sum totj I hold out no such idea. It was a fnrnnfe cal happmefs, yet he did not expect .t v.outd of our powers, wntten or unwritten ; unless of the gentleman. I wish the federal gobe sound in the end, to be an exc-- p on to lua ene-- i a! emark. indeed the gentlemen diaw some of their auHe alluded to ievr rI instanto poltefs and cxeicife all its rightvernment ces in the federal government, and .bjjj-veful po.weis, but no more. I wish the slates thority for their extensive notions of legislation, from the lex non scripta of Alfred's counalso, to be lest in tha exeicife of theirs. I gensrall", tint as we Were nov in ty 13th year undei the prefe.it confhiution, as re had try, which I am told some gentlemen consider do not wiSh to see every thing valuable exas attaching itself to our constitution. But tracted fiom them. I do not wifli to see all been 13 years under the old fvftem of the of confederation, he toa In is useful admitting the proportion to be true, is the poffible subjects drawn into the gieat vortex couclufion diawn from it well sounded, that a of federal legislation nnd atljudication. I do m our ejections to make a companion bemultiplicity of courts and judges inspire ternot in Short wiSh, as fonie gentlemen may do, tween them : during tne first pencd of 11 nrnent, as it v as calLd to see one min-litror and prevent litigation, and the commiffion confohdated fovereigiuv .years the federal of wrongs. I confess I am now for the first L collected from, and riected on the ruins of poSTelUd P'lther vi. juti al power, nor any revenue at all ; they were sot t-time to learn, that to inspire terror and pK? Till the State lovereigftties. even to form thir own bodv bv compelvent wrongs, you ought to embody an army It is now growing late, and the committee of udjres ; and that to support or disco jrage must be f indued ; I v. ill trespass verv lntl- - ling the attendance of their members; thet-attended cr wee abi "U ?s th-IVTnnv or" thf rn rvnr rnc Ii i ration, you ought to embodv another ret of longer nn them. pkafed.W men, taeir general attendants, called la' vers, ft which I have a.ifnd.d, were it a fr...e, vei v Tneu ideas cf u.e c.jwroi-nment- J that it tfj .But a judge itands on more independen ground. He (hall not be removed at the wil of the president, nor be starved out by th legislature. He shall be removed from the exercise of his duties for misbehavior onrjff whilst exercising those duties : ahd dur.ng the continuance of his office, or in other words, his duties, the legislature (hail not the confederation annexed to those duties. His independence and hontfty in office, thertfor?, are sufficiently secured against executive or legislative influence has But the gentleman from New-Yor- k racked his very fei tile imagination to render familiar to us by conipanfons, this wondeiful and unprecedented tfung ; an officer wittiout an office, a judge w ith ut a court, without duHe has likened ties, or without authonty. him to a bridge, to a boat, to the national forthe first time, are become peaci makers ; who with their robes and greeit bags will ftnke fuchtenof into the nation, that a nurl'e of gold may hang in safety by the high v. ay. Halcyon days, these indeed, men are piomited tiom a coiiUnuince 01 these judges , and is not vifionarwJ cculd then aniwer the gentleman iiom iaffachu-fett- s' in the affirmative, that the jnillen.i.m was indeed approaching. The neceffity fornumerous courts and judg- i- difci-tion- JL --- . e ,..., i, te ns .i Tit de-si- j -- 1 j ts I'jTc-eftion- fi-- s t es wr-t;- les 1 wi le-i- r ble -- y